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	<title>Comments on: Meditation For Non-Hippies</title>
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	<description>Become Who You&#039;re Meant To Be</description>
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		<title>By: Avy</title>
		<link>http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/2009/11/meditation-for-non-hippies/comment-page-1/#comment-752</link>
		<dc:creator>Avy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 22:21:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/?p=1113#comment-752</guid>
		<description>I agree that it can be a quick answer for those who just don&#039;t really want to figure out what exactly they believe, though that&#039;s never really bothered me. As far as I&#039;m concerned eternal truths are either nonexistent or overrated, and generally as long as people are civil (and a strong, consistent moral code doesn&#039;t stop people from being jerks) I don&#039;t care what they believe except as a potentially interesting conversation. 
 
However, I also think sticking to &#039;spiritual&#039; can simply be a way to indicate that your beliefs do not align with a known religion. Like you said, we may just be arguing semantics here, but that particular bit of semantics can be very significant if, say, you&#039;re talking about karma as a neat idea that you&#039;ve incorporated into your worldview rather than karma as a part of Hinduism. Science could just about be called a religion by that definition (though most people would still insist a religion must have a metaphysical aspect which screws that up), but it doesn&#039;t work for skepticism or atheism. Nether is a set of beliefs, just one belief or attitude. Similarly a person&#039;s spiritual ideas may have nothing to do with their behaviour. An atheist can still have strong morals as can someone like me who doesn&#039;t give a toss about the truths of the cosmos but maintains certain behaviours for practical reasons. Spiritually or religiously I don&#039;t think too hard about what I believe or whether I&#039;m right, because I don&#039;t think it&#039;s important as long as I treat people well. And that&#039;s not even moral, it&#039;s based on improving my environment and a somewhat pavlovian response to making other people happy which is hardwired into most humans. 
 
But I digress... &quot;A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe&quot; is too vague to be useful in general conversation, and the stuff added on with words like &#039;especially&#039; and &#039;often&#039; are generally considered included unless they are specifically cut out. Spiritual beliefs also don&#039;t have to encompass all three, and often don&#039;t. This could indicate someone is being lazy, or that they haven&#039;t found a viewpoint they agree with or that they&#039;ve actively decided it is not worth sorting out. 
 
Sorry this isn&#039;t terribly well-organized as an argument. No time to edit, exams to study for. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that it can be a quick answer for those who just don&#039;t really want to figure out what exactly they believe, though that&#039;s never really bothered me. As far as I&#039;m concerned eternal truths are either nonexistent or overrated, and generally as long as people are civil (and a strong, consistent moral code doesn&#039;t stop people from being jerks) I don&#039;t care what they believe except as a potentially interesting conversation. </p>
<p>However, I also think sticking to &#039;spiritual&#039; can simply be a way to indicate that your beliefs do not align with a known religion. Like you said, we may just be arguing semantics here, but that particular bit of semantics can be very significant if, say, you&#039;re talking about karma as a neat idea that you&#039;ve incorporated into your worldview rather than karma as a part of Hinduism. Science could just about be called a religion by that definition (though most people would still insist a religion must have a metaphysical aspect which screws that up), but it doesn&#039;t work for skepticism or atheism. Nether is a set of beliefs, just one belief or attitude. Similarly a person&#039;s spiritual ideas may have nothing to do with their behaviour. An atheist can still have strong morals as can someone like me who doesn&#039;t give a toss about the truths of the cosmos but maintains certain behaviours for practical reasons. Spiritually or religiously I don&#039;t think too hard about what I believe or whether I&#039;m right, because I don&#039;t think it&#039;s important as long as I treat people well. And that&#039;s not even moral, it&#039;s based on improving my environment and a somewhat pavlovian response to making other people happy which is hardwired into most humans. </p>
<p>But I digress&#8230; &quot;A set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature and purpose of the universe&quot; is too vague to be useful in general conversation, and the stuff added on with words like &#039;especially&#039; and &#039;often&#039; are generally considered included unless they are specifically cut out. Spiritual beliefs also don&#039;t have to encompass all three, and often don&#039;t. This could indicate someone is being lazy, or that they haven&#039;t found a viewpoint they agree with or that they&#039;ve actively decided it is not worth sorting out. </p>
<p>Sorry this isn&#039;t terribly well-organized as an argument. No time to edit, exams to study for.</p>
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		<title>By: jasondbarr</title>
		<link>http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/2009/11/meditation-for-non-hippies/comment-page-1/#comment-750</link>
		<dc:creator>jasondbarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/?p=1113#comment-750</guid>
		<description>Hi, Avy.  Thanks for taking the time to comment!  I want to explain my view point a little bit.  Don&#039;t know if you&#039;ll agree or not, but that&#039;s why we&#039;re having a discussion, right?  I&#039;m not trying to pick a fight, either, but I do have very strong opinions about this topic.  
  
Here&#039;s how Webster&#039;s Dictionary defines &quot;religion&quot; -  
  
&lt;strong&gt;religion&lt;/strong&gt; - 4 dictionary results   
  
&#8211;noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.   
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.    
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.    
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.    
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.   
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.    
7. religions, Archaic. religious rites.   
8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one&#039;s vow.    
  
&#8212;Idiom9. get religion, Informal. a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices.   
b. to resolve to mend one&#039;s errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.    
   
Definition #1 is what I&#039;m addressing here.  I&#039;m saying that people who believe in something that can&#039;t be empirically verified have, by definition, a religion.  They have a set of beliefs about the way the world works, and how forces that can&#039;t be verified interact with it (or not).  By this definition, even skeptics, atheists, and scientists are religious.    
  
What bugs me about the &quot;spiritual, not religious&quot; crowd is that they don&#039;t take the time and effort to really understand what it is that they think.  They (at least in my experience with these folks) drift through life, not questioning anything, which tends to lead to misunderstandings and inconsistencies.    
  
Do I have EVERYTHING figured out?  Not at all.  However, I do my best to intentionally eliminate inconsistencies in my belief systems.  I think that the &quot;spiritual, not religious&quot; mantra is a cop out that people use when they don&#039;t want to ask the hard questions.  More than any other topic I&#039;ve dealt with on this blog, I&#039;ve tried to push people to act intentionally, and understand why it is they do what they do.  
  
Again, thanks for commenting.  We may agree on this issue, and we&#039;re just caught up in semantics.&lt;strong&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Avy.  Thanks for taking the time to comment!  I want to explain my view point a little bit.  Don&#039;t know if you&#039;ll agree or not, but that&#039;s why we&#039;re having a discussion, right?  I&#039;m not trying to pick a fight, either, but I do have very strong opinions about this topic.</p>
<p>Here&#039;s how Webster&#039;s Dictionary defines &quot;religion&quot; -</p>
<p><strong>religion</strong> &#8211; 4 dictionary results </p>
<p>&ndash;noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs. </p>
<p>2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.  </p>
<p>3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.  </p>
<p>4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.  </p>
<p>5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith. </p>
<p>6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.  </p>
<p>7. religions, Archaic. religious rites. </p>
<p>8. Archaic. strict faithfulness; devotion: a religion to one&#039;s vow.  </p>
<p>&mdash;Idiom9. get religion, Informal. a. to acquire a deep conviction of the validity of religious beliefs and practices. </p>
<p>b. to resolve to mend one&#039;s errant ways: The company got religion and stopped making dangerous products.  </p>
<p>Definition #1 is what I&#039;m addressing here.  I&#039;m saying that people who believe in something that can&#039;t be empirically verified have, by definition, a religion.  They have a set of beliefs about the way the world works, and how forces that can&#039;t be verified interact with it (or not).  By this definition, even skeptics, atheists, and scientists are religious.  </p>
<p>What bugs me about the &quot;spiritual, not religious&quot; crowd is that they don&#039;t take the time and effort to really understand what it is that they think.  They (at least in my experience with these folks) drift through life, not questioning anything, which tends to lead to misunderstandings and inconsistencies.  </p>
<p>Do I have EVERYTHING figured out?  Not at all.  However, I do my best to intentionally eliminate inconsistencies in my belief systems.  I think that the &quot;spiritual, not religious&quot; mantra is a cop out that people use when they don&#039;t want to ask the hard questions.  More than any other topic I&#039;ve dealt with on this blog, I&#039;ve tried to push people to act intentionally, and understand why it is they do what they do.</p>
<p>Again, thanks for commenting.  We may agree on this issue, and we&#039;re just caught up in semantics.<strong></strong></p>
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		<title>By: Avy</title>
		<link>http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/2009/11/meditation-for-non-hippies/comment-page-1/#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>Avy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Dec 2009 13:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/?p=1113#comment-749</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve no argument with having another type of meditation. Not having done much myself, I couldn&#039;t say which would personally be more useful, though obviously people get some mileage out of both and hey, whatever works. I was more troubled by the bit on &#039;spirituality&#039; as being automatically the same as &#039;religion.&#039; It probably doesn&#039;t make sense if you haven&#039;t had to differentiate them within your own life, but many people have. 
 
The word &#039;religious&#039; is where things get tricky, Religion in modern parlance (though I can&#039;t be sure of the roots) indicates an organized group, look again at your examples in the link and you&#039;ll see the term &#039;group&#039; and &#039;order&#039; turn up a lot. A lot of people don&#039;t like organized religion after their initial traumatic introduction. Also religion implies belief in a particular god/goddess/pantheon, whereas spirituality has a bit more room for people who do believe in auras but don&#039;t have an altar to Gaea. How else does one say &quot;I do believe in things beyond the physical, but I&#039;m not part of a coherent religious group&quot;? 
 
So yeah. Not trying to fight, I just think there&#039;s some stuff you aren&#039;t taking into account when dismissing non-religious spirituality as trite or false. Just because the dictionary puts them together doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;re completely interchangeable, finer distinctions of meaning and context apply. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#039;ve no argument with having another type of meditation. Not having done much myself, I couldn&#039;t say which would personally be more useful, though obviously people get some mileage out of both and hey, whatever works. I was more troubled by the bit on &#039;spirituality&#039; as being automatically the same as &#039;religion.&#039; It probably doesn&#039;t make sense if you haven&#039;t had to differentiate them within your own life, but many people have. </p>
<p>The word &#039;religious&#039; is where things get tricky, Religion in modern parlance (though I can&#039;t be sure of the roots) indicates an organized group, look again at your examples in the link and you&#039;ll see the term &#039;group&#039; and &#039;order&#039; turn up a lot. A lot of people don&#039;t like organized religion after their initial traumatic introduction. Also religion implies belief in a particular god/goddess/pantheon, whereas spirituality has a bit more room for people who do believe in auras but don&#039;t have an altar to Gaea. How else does one say &quot;I do believe in things beyond the physical, but I&#039;m not part of a coherent religious group&quot;? </p>
<p>So yeah. Not trying to fight, I just think there&#039;s some stuff you aren&#039;t taking into account when dismissing non-religious spirituality as trite or false. Just because the dictionary puts them together doesn&#039;t mean they&#039;re completely interchangeable, finer distinctions of meaning and context apply.</p>
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		<title>By: jasondbarr</title>
		<link>http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/2009/11/meditation-for-non-hippies/comment-page-1/#comment-694</link>
		<dc:creator>jasondbarr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/?p=1113#comment-694</guid>
		<description>Apparently, this is a big deal. :)  Change has been made.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently, this is a big deal. <img src='http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />   Change has been made.</p>
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		<title>By: Beth</title>
		<link>http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/2009/11/meditation-for-non-hippies/comment-page-1/#comment-693</link>
		<dc:creator>Beth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Nov 2009 16:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.startbeingyourbest.com/?p=1113#comment-693</guid>
		<description>LIE DOWN, LIE down, LIE down. You can LAY a blanket on the floor first, and then and LIE on it if you like. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LIE DOWN, LIE down, LIE down. You can LAY a blanket on the floor first, and then and LIE on it if you like.</p>
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